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Debbie Penzone:
Welcome to From the Outside In. I'm your host, Debbie Penzone. This episode with Charles Penzone was recorded on location at our Art Studio in the original Charles Penzone Grand Salon in Dublin. In today's episode, you'll get inspired by one of the most creative people I know, my husband, Chuck. You'll walk away from this episode knowing it's never too late to pursue a passion or find a new hobby, especially during these kinds of challenge and change.

Debbie Penzone:
Welcome back to the show, Chuck. It's always a fun day when our worlds collide and we get to work together again. Just being here in the PENZONE Art Studio, I'm feeling so inspired as I look around. This has been a safe haven for both of us over the last nine months.

Charles Penzone:
It certainly has. It's been a great time here.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah. And you've often mentioned, this Art Studio has been your silver lining from COVID. Tell our listeners what inspired you to create this space.

Charles Penzone:
Well, we had it available because we had moved from the original Grand Salon and this was the employee lounge, the training facility, the laundry facility. And we were coming back with corporate here, and we're going to be housed next to the new salon that we moved to after we vacated here. So, we had the space available, and it's perfect for an art studio. We've got north light, we've got plenty of space, we've got the white walls, and it was a perfect environment to be able to do this.

Charles Penzone:
But it kind of happened just prior to COVID hitting. I mean, when we went to Florida in February of 2019? 2020, yeah. When we got there, I bought some canvas and paints, and we started to play with it, and it motivated me to come back, and expand the studio here. And I've been spending about probably, on the average, six hours a day painting here. And it's just been an unbelievable gift that, actually, you and your team have given me. You guys have been managing things for quite a while now, and it's enabled me to just focus on this silver lining as something I've always wanted to do. I've collected art for 50 years. Actually, 55 years. And it was just a natural segue for me to do something that I've always enjoyed.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah. And I think that's — gosh, just even letting our listeners hear this, they might be thinking to themselves, "Yeah, so many people try new hobbies, and experimented, and had time for things that they never would have taken time for unless that pause was put in our life." I'm here physically right now with you, but give our listeners an audio tour of the place.

Charles Penzone:
Well, as I mentioned, it was the lower level of the Grand Salon, which is about 5,000 square feet overall. And we used it for a really nice lounge for our team members. The laundry facilities that probably, the laundry facility we have probably did as much laundry as most hotels in Columbus do. We had storage areas, and it was just 5,000 feet of things that we needed to keep the operation going.

Charles Penzone:
Then, having left here to go into a brand new facility after 30 years of operation next door, I had the opportunity to take a great, great space that I've enjoyed unbelievably. But it's about the art part of it, the studio part of it is about 2,500 feet. And it's been great. I can come in and, just, it's a safe haven. It keeps me sane. It keeps me safe. With my COVID-19 profile, my age and underlying conditions, I have to be especially careful during this time, and it's been the relief for that.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah, yeah. We've been so blessed to have this really cool creative space for you here. And it didn't take much, like you said. We were pretty much still using the building for warehouse down here in this lower level. And I just think it has such a cool vibe now. You just really took it to that rawness, the concrete floors, so that if paint gets on it, it doesn't matter. And all the walls just got a fresh coat of paint of white.

Debbie Penzone:
And then, you added some really cool, unique lights that I know we'll, hopefully, get some pictures for the listeners to be able to visualize as a really powerful, and fun, creative lighting throughout the process to really be able to hang different pieces of art and really be able to showcase the art off here. So, it's a great visual tour to kind of explain and kind of share that with the listeners.

Charles Penzone:
Our listeners will be able to take a virtual tour soon because I'm going to have an Instagram page that will be called Charles Penzone Art. And on it, there'll be pictures of the studio. There'll be photographs of the paintings. I formed an LLC, Charles Penzone Art will be selling from our personal collection that we've collected over 50 years. We have hundreds of paintings of local people, local artists that we've had in our locations, and then we put them in storage. And I'm looking really forward to having a new company to be able to sell not only my paintings, but works of other local people. I believe I have probably more local art collected than anyone in Central Ohio. I've enjoyed supporting the art community here for 52 years that we've owned the company.

Debbie Penzone:
And because I think you love art so much and supporting those local artists with all of our different salons and locations that we've had in the past, you have such a great collection that you have that we even got to repurpose again. You can't sell it because you love it, so I don't know if you would ever be able to sell any of it, honey. I'm just saying. You love every piece. It's hard for you to part with it. And a really cool thing with doing the new brand was that big surprise of going into your collection and being able to repurpose some of the art from the '70s and '80s. The graffiti art that you just loved that came back around, and we surprised you, and bringing them out into the location, and being able to once again have that art live again, and have people be able to see it.

Charles Penzone:
Well, actually, you, you're the one for repurposing it. You went through and discovered a lot of the work that did fit in beautiful with our design today. And in particular, you fell in love with some work by Mark Carter. He was a local artist here in Columbus and now lives in Alaska. And I had lost touch with him. And someone who was framing one of my pictures that I had painted over one of his from-

Debbie Penzone:
Oh no! No, that's repurposing.

Charles Penzone:
… from the '80s was a friend of Mark's, and she connected us. Now, she said she contacted him, and said, "You know Charles Penzone?" And he goes, "Yeah, he has 53 of my pictures." And I would do things like that. In the '70s and '80s, I would collect whole collections of local artists. And he remembered exactly to each picture what I had of his. And we've been communicating for the last four or five months. And now, we look at pictures of each other, and we each look a little different than we did in the '80s, early '80s. But it's fun to see the old work withstanding the test of time.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah. And being able to bring it back out and put it into a modern building with this new brand that was created, it was so special because it's that history and that being able to repurpose something that will always stand the test of time.

Charles Penzone:
Yeah, it was a great experience working with Mark. But, over the past, I mean, we have a lot of local artists. Mack Worthington, we have maybe 25 of his sculptures. Laura Joseph, we probably have that many of her works. And Juris Kakis, we have 40-some pieces of his. These are local people that I work with closely in the '80s.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah. Going back to that, when did you first begin this passion of loving the arts?

Charles Penzone:
Well, I bought my first piece when I was 19 or 20 years old, which is 55 years ago. And I bought it from Ivan Penwell, a friend of mine I grew up with who is an incredible artist. And I still have the piece. That's a bust that he did as a student at CCAD. And we were together one night, and just was sitting in his apartment, and I said, "I've got to have this piece." And so, he sold it to me for $10-

Debbie Penzone:
Oh, gosh! Oh wow!

Charles Penzone:
… which to a starving student at CCAD in the '70s, early '70s, $10 probably bought him food for a month.

Debbie Penzone:
Wow!

Charles Penzone:
And we're still in touch. He lives in Sonoma now. And he's a dear friend. And another dear friend, Larry Snyder, we grew up together since the first grade, and he's an incredible artist and a great inspiration to me. And he's retired and painting in Florida these days.

Debbie Penzone:
So, a lot of these artists have become friends and a great relationship that you built with them is just so amazing to hear. And I'm sure, now, when they see your art, they're probably just so proud of you to know the love that you have for art. And now, you are expressing it and doing it yourself.

Charles Penzone:
Yeah, you do become friends. And I don't think there's such a thing as artist-envy. I think artists or people who enjoy art – I don't consider myself an artist yet. I'm still learning every day and working hard to polish the craft, but I think people who appreciate and enjoy art, and those who make a living at it enjoy the company of others that understand what it takes to sit down, and be taken over by paint, and canvas, and design.

Charles Penzone:
And very similar to growing up in the beauty industry. I mean, I was taken over with each client by color, and design, and shape, and composition. So, my whole life has been doing something creative on a daily basis. And if I didn't have this right now, I don't know what I'd be doing, to be honest. It's been amazing. So, like you said, it's the silver lining of this whole experience I've had.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah. And I love hearing you compare it to our industry, right? Because you and I are both hair artists and grew up in this industry creating. And that creative right side of your brain that you had that passion and that love for design, texture, the color wheel, shapes, I feel is a part of who we are because of that passion for our industry. I know when I'm in here in the studio getting to throw some paint on a canvas, I go right to that space where I did behind the chair, where it's that excitement of creating and that love of creating that just takes over. And you feel so blessed that you have that creativity.

Charles Penzone:
Yeah, which brings me to a point, I may have been a little short in saying, there isn't artist-envy because I'm sitting here looking at one of your pictures about 10 or 12 feet from us, and I do envy somewhat your talent. And no, you really are gifted. And your understanding of the color wheel, I wish that I had that. I envy that maybe more than anything. You understand color as well as anyone I've ever known in our industry. And you bring it right into your painting. And that's kind of fun to watch you work. Sometimes, I'll be in the middle of a picture, and I'll stop, and just watch you work in amazement.

Debbie Penzone:
Well, I think we both have been blessed to have this space here to share.

Charles Penzone:
I think it's worked for both of us. Yeah, it's been great.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah, and this love of creativity, which is so aligned with our life purpose of what we do every day in the salon and spas, and being inspired by our hair artists and even our skin artists to look at some of the makeup that they do comes back full circle.

Charles Penzone:
Well, I have to tell you, I mean, there has been another silver lining to this COVID-19 issue. I mean, my typical day is to wake up with you and spend all day with you. I mean, we're together with the painting. I mean, I travel between the home and the studio, and I'm generally with you most of that day. So, it hasn't been all wasted. And there have been a lot of learning experiences in addition to the painting that have come the way of the virus. And I feel blessed and lucky that we've made it through this far.

Debbie Penzone:
I've had people also ask me about your training. When they see the pictures, we've hung a couple of them now, reach out and say, "Has he been trained? Did he take classes? How did he learn how to do this?" And what would be some advice or something that you could share with our listeners about how did you get started? How did you roll up your sleeves and get started just doing it?

Charles Penzone:
Well, I think it began back when I bought that piece from Ivan. And I'd always been enamored with the aesthetic. And I really love and appreciate things that are beautiful. I love architecture. I love photography. I love the written word. I'm an English major, a literature major. And I love anything beautiful. And I've always been captivated by it. And so, after the first piece, I just started buying things. I remember being on active duty in the Army National Guard, and we would leave training, and go on a leave for a day or so, and we were stationed outside of Mexico.

Charles Penzone:
And instead of hitting the bars and chugging tequila with my buddies, I would walk through the bazaars and the shopping areas of local artists. And I would buy local art from them while I was on active duty. I still have chess sets made of onyx and sculptures made of different materials indigenous to Mexico at the time. And I just kept collecting. And we've had wall space within our locations since 1969 and our customers enjoyed the environment to look its best.

Charles Penzone:
So, I've had plenty of space to be able to put the collection. And they like to see change as well, so we're constantly refurbishing the artwork. So, I began collecting. And in addition to that, I mean, I have friends that are in the art world, or I mean, one of my close friends is one of the top collectors in the United States for contemporary art. And it's always been a part of my life. And I don't know if I could live without it. When I think about my senses that, without a doubt, the visual sense for me is the driver in all of my senses. What I see is so important and critical to me.

Charles Penzone:
And I've been blessed with a great vision and I think it helps with the aesthetic. I know what good art is supposed to look like. I know art. However, there's a difference between being a bullfighter and understanding bullfighting. I mean, I have the eye for good art. However, the tactile discipline. And my hands don't have the steadiness they did at one time. So, achieving what I know is good art and putting it on canvas is the challenge. I know color, I know composition, but the hands don't always do what your mind wants it to do at my age. So, I have to probably work to exhaustion to get a picture the way that I really want it to look.

Debbie Penzone:
And I guess coming back to that question that I asked of you, because I know I was there with you and it was pretty enlightening to be able to share with our listeners, you started taking online art classes. So, that is like kind of at the core of, you started rolling up your sleeves to experiment, but then you also explored these online classes that you could learn, where before, you never would have done that. But it was COVID times, so everything going online. Everything was going online. You didn't have to go anywhere. And you had all this time.

Charles Penzone:
Well, I discovered a site called Udemy, U-D-E-M-Y, and it does online teaching of so many different disciplines. I mean, everything that you can take a course in, you can get through them. And I bet I've taken 20 courses online with them. YouTube is another-

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah, I love watching YouTube.

Charles Penzone:
I mean, you and I watch YouTube.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah, we spend hours just watching, yeah, their videos and trying to see how they're doing something or how they're mixing it up to get a really cool look on the canvas.

Charles Penzone:
Yeah. And there's nothing you can't do today without online.

Debbie Penzone:
What's your preferred medium and what's the style that you like to paint in?

Charles Penzone:
Well, I prefer abstract art for a couple of reasons. Number one, visually and aesthetically, I enjoy it. It's extremely forgiving at this stage of my life. It gives me a break. And I think today, abstract art is even more flexible than it's ever been. A lot of the courses I take, they tell you, be free, you've got to hold the brush at the very end. Don't hold it like a pencil. You don't want it to look like it's too perfect, which is a blessing for me because nothing I do is perfect.

Debbie Penzone:
No. And I think that's been so enlightening when you've shared some of the articles that you have read and seen, but you know what, you don't want the perfect painting, you don't want that perfect shape, because in nature and in life, it's that asymmetric shape. Even us as people. One side of our face is not the same as the other side, understanding that perfect and the imperfect, and not judging art. I love how you've come and shared articles, where it's like, there's no bad art or good art, and not being afraid of trying to create this perfect masterpiece. Just really express how you're feeling and let the painting come to life.

Charles Penzone:
Yeah, I think most art, you talk about perfection, but no artist ever thinks his picture was perfect, I'm sure. I had a friend that was an opera aficionado and loved the opera. And I remember talking to him about an opera by Mozart called Don Giovanni. And at the end of the conversation, he said, yeah, it's really, really good, but you have to love perfection. And he said, is that what opera is? Perfection? He said, who wants to sit through perfection? And I think it's hard to find anything that's perfect. And that's been a blessing for me because nothing I do is perfect.

Debbie Penzone:
And it's finding that balance of life because life is not perfect. You have good days and bad days, but you don't want to judge them as good days and bad days. You want to judge them as days that you've been blessed with, hours that you can enjoy and be here in that moment.

Charles Penzone:
As I was growing up, I mean, I loved, at one time, hunting. I loved fly fishing. I loved a lot of things that took physical exercise and stuff. And the older I get, I'm blessed too that, in addition to those things, I love writing, I love reading, I love painting, and that worked in beautifully with the quarantine. But painting in a studio, I mean, I leave the house, I come to a studio, I'm alone all day. And it's really kept me feeling very safe and protected from the virus.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah. And I think, too, like this has been your workout too. I mean, seriously. Like you don't just sit down and paint. You're standing, you're moving, you're walking. They're big, huge canvases.

Charles Penzone:
Oh, that weighs every bit of three pounds.

Debbie Penzone:
Oh, no. But I think what has been great for you right now is you're always constantly moving. You're not sitting on the couch watching TV. I mean, you get up, and you come to the studio, and you continue to move, and be inspired, and get your mind and your body moving. And it is important. It's so important to keep that passion and having a purpose every day of your life, which I love sharing your story because I think it's inspiring to others to find out what is that passion or that inspiration that you need to get you going every day and keep you moving. Not just your body, but also your mind and your creativity. That spark is very exciting that I've seen you actually live through this year.

Charles Penzone:
I don't think I answered the question about the medium that I used. I mean, I like abstract art, but I mostly use acrylics and mixed media. I'll use just about anything that will add color to a canvas, but the base is always acrylic right now. And I'll probably eventually move to some oil painting as well. I'd like to play with sculpture, too. I mean, I think we have people here in Columbus that can manufacture pieces of sculpture and I'm hoping I keep encouraging you to do the same thing because I think you have a great sense of design. And I know a place on our property that would be perfect for one of your pieces of sculpture to put up. So, maybe we'll get that done.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah. But looking at this picture that's behind us right now, I see a lot of the poor painting that we've been doing lately, which is kind of fun on the acrylic as well as chalk, and also, spray paint. What other mediums do you use here? You use a lot of the, was it Indian ink?

Charles Penzone:
I do India ink. And yeah. I mean, just about everything that you can find on a painting, is pretty much here. Yeah. I keep saying, nothing's perfect. However, it seems that every picture that I finish, I say to myself, wow, that's the best thing you've done yet. And I've loved every picture I've done. I don't think it's going to end up in the Museum of Modern Art in New York or the Louvre in Paris, but I'm enjoying it and loving every picture I've done. And I've learned something about painting and about me from each picture.

Debbie Penzone:
Oh, yeah, because they mean something. I'd love to share with our social following, few of your pieces have made it into our salons. And we've shared that on our social media with PENZONE Salon + Spa. And I'd love for you to tell our listeners about what you have created and where it went when we put it up. I know the first couple pieces.

Charles Penzone:
Well, we put two up in the new Dublin location yesterday. The one we're sitting by will be going into the Short North soon. It's a triptych. It's 15 feet long and three feet high. And I love this picture. I just think it's going to be great in that location. The Upper Arlington has at least four pictures there that they were the first to get our art.

Debbie Penzone:
And I think that came from some of our team members seeing some of our art that we were and you were doing, and said, gosh, we need some really cool pieces. We're ready for some new art here, and our UA Salon and would love to see if Chuck could do one for us. And that was your first salon that we really hung up. And now, we have about four or five pieces there. And the one on social media that I love that we really got the hanging experience of of the moment with you was at Polaris. And that was your first really big piece. How big is that, the piece in Polaris?

Charles Penzone:
The piece in Polaris is pretty huge. It's five panels and it's six feet high by 18 feet long. It's like 15 or 18 feet long. It's a very nice piece. It was one of the first pieces I did and it took forever to put together. It probably took three months of working on it every day for three months. And I love the piece and it's met some good reviews.

Debbie Penzone:
You put some special numbers.

Charles Penzone:
Yeah, actually.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah. I think the story, I love to hear our team tell it when I'm in there getting in the manicure, pedicure room, and a guest might ask about it, and to hear our team talk about it is really kind of cool how they explain like the numbers and some of the dates.

Charles Penzone:
Well, it's a very, very personal piece. The numbers on it are addresses of all the current locations throughout the painting.

Debbie Penzone:
Of the salons and spas.

Charles Penzone:
Of the salons and spas, the address where I was raised, and my mother lived for 78 years, my mother and father lived there 72 years. It's got the year, important dates to me, the year we met, the year we were married, the address of our current home, the year we opened the first salon. What was it?

Debbie Penzone:
'69.

Charles Penzone:
1969, yeah. And just my kids' athletic numbers in high school and college, the years they were born.

Debbie Penzone:
So, lots of numbers.

Charles Penzone:
Well, it's a big piece. It's a very big piece. And the number one is on every panel somewhere, because for 52 years, I think we've been the number one company of our kind. And according to all the voting in town, and on the magazines and newspapers, we're still the best in Columbus. And I wanted to make that statement to our team there.

Debbie Penzone:
Yes. Because we're so proud that 52 years, that's not easy in our industry.

Charles Penzone:
Fifty-two years, still creating, still reinventing our company on a daily basis.

Debbie Penzone:
And reinvesting and doing what it takes to stay at that level.

Charles Penzone:
Yes. Yes. And I think that's critical and that's why we're still here.

Debbie Penzone:
If you could give pointers to our listeners on how to explore, and find new hobbies and passions, what would you say?

Charles Penzone:
Well, you find what you love and you just determine that you're going to figure out how to do it. It was made easy for me by you and our team, and the circumstances that we had with the studio availability. But if we hadn't had that, I would have found a way to occupy my time and to be disciplined enough to focus. And I'm not generally like that. I'm a fairly spontaneous person. Like I was explaining to someone earlier today that I don't go into a painting with a plan or a vision.

Charles Penzone:
I basically just start emoting, and putting shapes on the canvas, and then the canvas takes over. However, I had a plan for how to get through this pandemic that we're in. And it may have come with age, or maturity, or you helping with that decision, but I would advise someone to just say, well, I've got this to do and I'm going to do it. And you just set out, but you've got to love what you're doing. You have to be in love with what it is that's going to keep you busy six to eight hours a day and keep you safe, basically.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah. And I guess exploring that, how did you find that you love doing art, and expressing your art, and being able to paint? I know that probably wasn't easy at first. I think I can remember your first couple pieces that I think they went in the trash can or you're thinking of, what am I doing? But I think finding the right medium to the right like, was it acrylic? What kind of paint? And then, the right style that's just you. And then, I think, too, you researched and saw so many articles and videos, I said, just do it, don't judge it, and don't be afraid of it. Just do it and express yourself.

Charles Penzone:
Yeah. And I mean, it was very similar to when I was very young. I mean, when I started the company, I was 23 years old, and I had the vim and vigor of a 23-year-old guy. And I worked incessantly and never, ever stopped at it. And I've done the same thing with this. But it's easy when you love it.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah. And I think you can overcome some of those challenges, thinking, when you were just talking about you starting the company at 23, I'll never forget a story that you told me, you were a great hairdresser, but for you, too, it did not come easy. And I remember you saying you used to drink a bottle of Maalox before you would go into the salon because you were so, not afraid, but doing every single guest is different, and starting out, and what you were doing behind the chair did not come easy. Like some people would just think, oh, my God, Charles Penzone, it just came so easy, started cutting hair, and just was overnight success. But that would inspire a lot of young professionals that you have to do it, even if it's challenging and it doesn't come easy, if you love it that much.

Charles Penzone:
My first job after I was fired from the very first job, I was lucky enough to fall into a great salon that was just filled with terrific designers. And that was a motivation. I mean, I was so nervous to just be between two or three really great hairdressers. And I was a nervous wreck because I barely could comb my own hair. And that was one of the motivations to begin our training program that we've had since we started in 1969.

Charles Penzone:
I mean, in 1969, we trained our new people 18 months before we turn them loose on clients. After they'd been licensed and experienced, we still kept them for 18 months. We've gotten it down to closer to a year now for training them because it's a lot of pressure to take a young creative person and put them between some creative geniuses. I mean, it's a lot of pressure. So, that was a motivation.

Debbie Penzone:
But that's, I think, a great insight to share with some young professionals, a young artist, or even a young hair artist, or not even young, but somebody that's trying to do a new hobby or try a new passion in their life. It's not going to be easy when you first get started. Even if you love it, you're going to have that fear a little bit. And it's not going to be easy. It's just taking those steps, and starting it, and continuing.

Charles Penzone:
Yeah. And you and I have talked incessantly about the process itself, that the important part of all of this is not so much the finished product as it is the journey and the process with each picture. And you mentioned painting over a mistake and throwing a mistake away, you have that luxury to be able to paint over your mistakes. And it's a life lesson. I look at it as a life lesson. I've painted over a lot of mistakes in my life, and every time I paint a picture and I make a mistake, I think of that. Okay, you made a mistake, oh, look at the mistakes you've made, and you learn from it in your life.

Debbie Penzone:
No mistake is bad because you learn so that when you fall down.

Charles Penzone:
Yeah, especially when you can just paint over your mistakes.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah. But it's always there underneath the painting that you paint over. So, I think for all of us, all those mistakes are still with us, but if you can learn from it, and grow from it, and not look at it as a bad thing, you got to fall down to be able to get back up. And when you get back up, you're going to have more fire in your soul to do it even better or to learn from it.

Charles Penzone:
Yeah, no one really gets hurt when you drip some paint on the canvas by accident. So, the mistakes that happen on canvas can easily be resolved and rectified. And that's a nice gift that you have when you do that.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah. But I like how you put it to life journey and life experience because I think that's so true, learning from that and sharing that experience of, you had lots of mistakes that people would never even imagine in life and in business, but you learn from them, you got back up, you started over, you challenged yourself, even though it was not easy, and overcame that because you loved what you're doing.

Charles Penzone:
Yeah, that's true. That is absolutely true.

Debbie Penzone:
More silver linings in the journey of life.

Charles Penzone:
Yes. I mean, think about this. I mean, today, the news of the test of the vaccine. I mean, that is a silver lining.

Debbie Penzone:
What are you dreaming to create next?

Charles Penzone:
Well, I think one of the motivations at my age, and with this company, and children, and grandchildren, I hope I can create things good enough that will withstand the test of time with people I love and care about. I'd love to create things that when I'm gone, the paintings are not. And my children and grandchildren will enjoy them, you will enjoy them. They'll still be in our locations, maybe. And I would like to create things that are worthy of holding on to, and will send a sense of love to those people I just mentioned, and remind them of Papa, or dad, or Chuck.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah, or Mr. P.

Charles Penzone:
Yeah, or Mr. P.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah. We have some great shoutouts from our team when the Dublin picture just got hung yesterday. They were so proud to stand in front of it and get a couple pictures. And I know you did have a great call from your granddaughter, Lily, that I know was so special to you.

Charles Penzone:
Yeah. I mean, my granddaughter, Lily, she's 16 now, and she's painting, and she gave me a shoutout, and can't wait to paint in the studio with me. My daughter has pictures of mine, a picture hanging above her couch and texted me the other day about two more. She sent me a picture. She goes, can you pop something together here? And my son has even suggested something for his home.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah. So, it feels so good to give that gift of art.

Charles Penzone:
Yeah. But you know what? If someone just looks at it, you can tell if they're telling the truth or not. I mean, I've had a good instinct about people and how they convince you or don't convince you of their sincerity. And when someone looks at it that you respect and says, yeah, that is really good, especially if they're in the art community, and I've had several artists that I admire and respect say, yeah, this is just an absolutely beautiful picture.

Debbie Penzone:
Yeah, it makes you feel good that they like it and enjoy it.

Charles Penzone:
Yeah, it makes your day. It absolutely makes your day. So, what I want to create next is something that when someone looks at it, it gives them a moment of joy. And I think that's more than enough. I'm not looking to make a living doing this. I'm looking to make people happy, and hopefully, be remembered by—it's kind of a legacy. Your painting is a legacy. And hopefully, they'll stick around for a while and be enjoyed.

Debbie Penzone:
Yes. Well, I am just so looking forward to what you create next because I know it's going to be unbelievable. And I mean, you're just getting started on this path of becoming this artist. And I know I would oftentimes call you my Picasso a long time ago. So, seeing you step into this light of really finding this passion for art and creating, I'm excited, looking forward to all that you're going to create this next year and years to come. Thank you for listening to From the Outside In. Please subscribe to the show on Apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. For more information, you can follow me on Instagram @DebbiePenzone. I'm Debbie Penzone. You are exactly who you need to be.

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